Reimagining Government S4E4-Dr. Farhana Sultana: unequal earth, unjust climate

Dr Farhana Sultana: [00:00:00] There is a kind of path dependency or rigidity in how governments function. We can try to move beyond simply reducing emissions, but we need to think about dismantling the systems that created this problem in the first place. 

Kandice Louis-Wilson: Welcome back to Reimagining Government, the podcast from the Centre for Public Impact.

Gabrielle Beran: We are your hosts, Gabrielle Beran.

Kandice Louis-Wilson: and Kandice Lewis-Wilson.

In 2010, the United Nations General Assembly declared that access to clean drinking water and sanitation is a basic human right. Yet more than a decade later, billions of people around the world still struggle to access it.

Minhaj Chowdhury: When I first go to a village, it’s very harrowing to see skin lesions on [00:01:00] people’s bodies, to see mottled teeth, to see all kinds of, uh, gangrene because people unknowingly drank water that was unsafe in arsenic.

Kandice Louis-Wilson: In Bangladesh, one of the country’s most affected, there’s hope that technology can help address the longstanding issue of water contamination.

A new app called IArsenic will allow users to assess the potential levels of toxic arsenic present in the tube wells. This innovative approach can empower individuals to make safer decisions about the water they drink. 

Gabrielle Beran: But if we’ve learned anything from this podcast series and our work on systemic change at CPI, we know that safe water isn’t just a health issue. It’s a gender issue, too. 

News Reporter 1: Water, essential for drinking, cooking, and hygiene. But collecting it is an arduous and time consuming daily chore for women such as Kalua and rural Niger. Each morning, she rises early to draw water from the well in her village in the southern Maridi region. It’s hard work that cuts into [00:02:00] the time Kalua needs to look after her five children and takes a harsh toll on her body.

Gabrielle Beran: Across the world, women are often the stewards of water in their communities. They’re the ones walking long distances to collect it. Managing it day to day and stretching it to sustain their households. As climate change brings harsher droughts and unpredictable rains, the very ecosystems their livelihoods depend on is at risk. And that’s why it’s vital that the experiences of women and other marginalised people are at the forefront of climate solutions and adaptation strategies.

Listening to and working with their voices isn’t optional. It’s essential for the systems change needed to deliver effective and timely climate action. 

Kandice Louis-Wilson: Our guest today, Dr Farhana Sultana, is an internationally recognised and award-winning interdisciplinary scholar, speaker, and author. Her work on water governance and climate justice has reshaped how we think about power, gender, and the environment.

She’s uniquely placed [00:03:00] to spotlight the women fighting for climate survival in the Global South. Our conversation with Farhana Sultana, after this quick break.

Ad: What if understanding climate change didn’t feel so overwhelming? The Climate Conundrum Podcast helps make sense of the science, polic,y and lived realities behind climate change, one candid conversation at a time. Each episode features insightful chats with scientists, policymakers, and grassroots change makers.

All aimed at unpacking big climate questions in a way that’s clear, relatable, and actionable. Whether you’re just getting curious or deep in the climate space, this show invites you in. With space for curiosity, clarity, and connection. Listen to the Climate Conundrum podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

Kandice Louis-Wilson: Welcome back to Reimagining Government. 

Gabrielle Beran: Dr Fahana Sultana, welcome to the [00:04:00] podcast. Thank you for having me. And would you like to introduce yourself any further to our audience? Anything else they should know? 

Dr Farhana Sultana: So I’m a professor in the Department of Geography and the Environment. I am originally from Bangladesh, which is where a lot of my research is.

I taught at King’s College London in the UK and also worked for the United Nations Development Program for a number of years. My background is in the natural sciences, then the social sciences, and then in public policy. 

My research, work and teaching have primarily focused in recent years on issues around environmental politics, specifically around issues of climate justice, water insecurity, sustainability. But also how they interlink with international development and social inequities, or how they exacerbate or support various forms of social, uh, progression and, uh, wellbeing and flourishing of various [00:05:00] communities. 

Gabrielle Beran: Can you contextualise for our listeners why women and marginalised groups are uniquely impacted by the climate crisis, particularly from your research and, and in the Global South? 

Dr Farhana Sultana: I think it’s really crucial to understand first that you know, climate change does not impact everyone equally.

What it does is it basically exacerbates or amplifies existing social and economic inequality, which can then fuel other forms of crises, whether it’s political or various forms of upheavals. So when it comes to thinking about gender relations, I think if we take a step back and recognise that patriarchy is global.

But in certain places or certain communities, practices of patriarchy look different. In certain places, patriarchy tends to position women in much more disadvantaged or disempowered positions, and that may be across [00:06:00] communities in the so-called Global South or Global North, or Majority World or Minority World.

As a result, what climate change does is because it is that threat and risk amplifier, it tends to impact vulnerable women more disproportionately because of their preexisting social roles or economic vulnerabilities or political marginalisation. 

But it comes down to power. So if there’s unequal power dynamics in terms of intersectionality by gender, race, class uh, disability and so on. We start to see that a pattern emerges, and that is where the Majority World or Global South, very poor women and poor women of colour are often impacted very inequitably. And that’s where we, um, research and my research and many other people’s research has shown that climate change tends to exacerbate those gender, uh, based social norms, inequities, and injustices. 

So, for instance, [00:07:00] um, in many parts of the world, women are responsible for securing household resources like water, fuel, and food. So when climate change makes these resources more scarce and more difficult to access, whether it’s due to water scarcity from less rainfall. Or, seawater intrusion into aquifers, which makes groundwater drinking water sources saline. 

It just means women have to walk further and it’s harder to fulfil daily tasks, and that traveling further to find drinking water also puts women and young girls, because girls are often pulled out of school to support their mothers in fetching drinking water because water is a daily need.

We’re seeing that, you know, it reduces their opportunities for education, economic activities, income, but also in terms of getting ahead. So in many ways, climate change plays into the various [00:08:00] types of gender-based division of labour, and that tends to mean that climate-related disasters also hit women and girls harder, because of prevailing gender-based norms.

News Reporter 2: Compromised health is bad enough, but think also about this. Every young girl who won’t go to school because there’s no loo. Every woman who risks physical harm to venture into the bush for privacy. Every parent who misses work caring for children made sick from poor sanitation. 

Gabrielle Beran: Thank you. And I think the example of water use is such a clear example and easy for people to visualise that cascade of impacts that it can have on someone’s lives.

It’s something we’ve already spoken about on the podcast, our ability where we are based, to turn on the tap. And if that was not true, I think people can really imagine that. So much of what we understand of your work has focused on water [00:09:00] governance. What role can governments play in ensuring that water governance is both climate-resilient and gender-responsive, maybe with or without resources?

Dr Farhana Sultana: When we think about how climate change disrupts the water cycle, whether it’s droughts or floods, or increasing sea level rise and salinisation. We’ve talked about how it impacts daily lives, and that has wider societal, economic, and public health-related consequences. So governments play a crucial role in ensuring that water governance is both climate resilient and gender responsive.

Because if they have the means, the resources, the coordinating power, the policy and lawmaking responsibilities. But also, in terms of connecting different groups, whether it’s through training or funding and so on. So what governments can do is move beyond simply providing infrastructure, but to looking more at issues of social, [00:10:00] political, economic dimensions of water access.

And it can do this through multiple ways. It can recognise women’s expertise in local water management. Because they have a much closer relationship to various forms of water’s presence in the human world in terms of resourcing water every day. What works, what doesn’t work, you know, the seasonality, the timing, the access.

So you can involve local women who may not have formal education, may not have those kinds of power, but have those intimate local knowledge and often indigenous knowledge. And you can involve communities, groups of women in decision-making processes. This means actively involving them in design and management of water programmes, not just in tokenistic consultation.

A second way could be securing, women’s rights to water. So to access water and land in legally [00:11:00] protected ways, especially for marginalised groups, because there has been such chronic dispossession of people’s homelands, from their homelands or water grabs and land grabs by corporations, by powerful entities, by the elite.

So we can start to think about, well, how do we ensure that people have the human right to water? In terms of access to clean, safe drinking water, but then also legal rights to various resources that are then, you know, communally managed or co-designed in terms of what are the policies and laws that govern how this resource, whether, you know, a river or a, a lake or something is managed.

The third way we can think about is investing in much more equitable solutions. So that’s like funding. So you can fund projects that reduce women and girls’ burdens, such as more decentralised water systems, much more accessible and safe sanitation facilities, cause when we think about water, [00:12:00] we need to think about water and sanitation and hygiene.

We also need to think about irrigation because a lot of farmers around the world are women. So how do we ensure women have access to irrigation technology, information, access to canals of irrigation network systems that are often male dominated. You know, governments can provide women, especially young women, with these kinds of resources and decision-making powers, whether it’s to support them to install a well, so that, you know, people feel more empowered to solve their own problems.

And in the process, we end up addressing gender inequality. 

Gabrielle Beran: Thank you. And what you so clearly described there is that there is this extensive knowledge base. From women themselves, from history, from indigenous practices, and also from new research like yours that says right here are all the things you could do.

You’ve spoken about patriarchy, and you’ve spoken about funding. Why else do you [00:13:00] think that even though we know what could be done, it’s not being offered? 

Dr Farhana Sultana: There is a kind of path dependency or rigidity in how governments function in what they’ve done in the past, which are often colonial hangovers, which are often defined by centuries of patriarchy, but also in terms of elite, you know, capture of government mechanisms and systems. 

So we see, you know, the presence of those kinds of systems that do not always work for the benefit of a vast majority of the poor. But those have been critiqued in the last 30 years, quite severely in terms of how governments function, how institutions can be made more gender-responsive. But when we think about these, we need to recognise that the importance of intersectionality, because there’s many governments or many projects where you see the token women’s presence.

But these are often very powerful, wealthy women of their communities. They do not necessarily represent the concerns or the objectives or, you know, [00:14:00] the needs of the much more disenfranchised women in their communities. So it’s a balancing act of like, you know, why governments don’t do it, but if they did, how they could do it better.

So I think it’s, it’s a combination of issues. 

Gabrielle Beran: Your new book, Confronting Climate Coloniality: Decolonizing Pathways for Climate Justice, explores the intersections of some of the things you, you just mentioned, colonialism, imperialism, capitalism, with climate. How does the concept of decolonised climate justice help us rethink how governments are responding to climate change and who or what they’re responding to?

Dr Farhana Sultana: It basically examines, how the historical legacies of colonialism and ongoing forms of imperialism and extractive capitalism, shaped the current climate crisis. Both in the distribution of impacts, but also in the solutions that are pursued. So it is not [00:15:00] just the past coming into the present, but it’s also how we envision the future.

So the concept of, decolonised climate justice, the way I framed it is that if climate coloniality, which is a term I’ve coined, if that means that entrenched coloniality of inequitable, global extraction of resources impacts on people, marginalisation, dispossession. Then what do we need? We need to undo what was done and is being done, and that’s the process of decolonisation.

We can try to move beyond simply reducing emissions. But we need to think about dismantling the systems that created this problem in the first place. If this crisis comes from that unjust resource, exploitation, displacement of people who contributed the least to creating the problem, a decolonised pathway means recognising this, confronting it, [00:16:00] dismantling it, and figuring out how can we build something better in its place.

So we need to start rethinking who is the climate expert. And this approach means, looking beyond technical solutions to that underlying political and social structures of inequality. So the first thing, what decolonising means is that we have to decolonise our knowledge. So that’s that expert part and what we hold as valuable knowledge in climate solutions.

But it also means acknowledging historical responsibility. So that means recognising, you know, countries in the, predominantly in the Global North, but basically former eurocentric colonisers who grew wealthy through colonialism and industrialisation, hold a moral and a material debt to the countries that were exploited across Latin America, Africa, and Asia.

That then leads us to the second part of the argument, which is we have to prioritise reparations and support in shifting the way we do climate solutions or climate justice. [00:17:00] 

News Reporter 3: We, in Myanmar, where the country’s military led government says more than 1600 people have been killed in Friday’s powerful earthquake.

The 7.7 magnitude quake struck around midday with its epicentre close to the city. 

News Reporter 4: The Gifford Fire in California, not even 10% contained right now. It’s already the biggest fire of the year in that state and it’s burned more than 80,000 acres in Southern California. 

Dr Farhana Sultana: So we are seeing how these kinds of heat waves and floods, and storms are really impacting countries that were not heeding the clarion calls of climate injustice, from countries like Bangladesh, like mine.

People have been clamouring and saying for 30, 40 years that this is happening, it’s a juggernaut, it’s going to get worse. Don’t wait. So when we think about shifting and accelerating those kinds of support, whether it’s financial support without creating new forms of dependency, but in thinking about what are the [00:18:00] better ways to pursue resolving the climate crisis.

Does that mean countries get more support for the loss and damage fund? Yes, but even though it’s been operationalised, it’s really a paltry amount of funding in the coffers in terms of what will be distributed, who is contributing into the fund, what is the accountability, what are the principles of justice that are being applied?

And the third way to think about this is also to value indigenous and local knowledge. So it’s respecting and learning from people, communities who have historically dealt with this issue, who have developed long-term place-based solutions. It means moving beyond that kind of Western-centric technocratic solutions and embracing a much more plural set of approaches that honours things like reciprocity and care, and conviviality.

So we’re not entirely judging the world and the earth for what resources it gives. If we think about it in terms of [00:19:00] a seesaw, it’s been really heavily tilted. Some people are way up there, while others are way down here.

So how do we balance that out much more equitably in terms of reducing this hyper consumption and waste in certain communities, so that other communities are able to flourish and grow, because they have been historically exploited for sometimes, for centuries. 

Kandice Louis-Wilson: So many different points to go in and talk about.

Something that you hit on in the end was, talking about the pluralistic governance. Can you explain what that is to our listeners and, give them an example of this working in practice somewhere. 

Dr Farhana Sultana: For me, pluralistic governance recognises that effective climate action cannot come from a single authority, but it involves a mix of actors.

So it is both the, you know, the states, the, the federal states, nonprofits, or NGOs. But also local communities, indigenous groups, and sometimes the private sector. So how do they work together, but not [00:20:00] necessarily in a top-down hierarchy. But it is also about bringing together the different forms of knowledge, not just actors.

So it’s knowledge that’s, you know, scientific, it’s indigenous. So bringing both Western science and indigenous science, but also local technical knowledge or local invisibilised knowledge that we talked about earlier in terms of gender-based knowledge. You know, how can we pull from that and honour and respect them to create better solutions to these really complex, wicked problems?

So climate and water problems are often called wicked problems because they’re hard to resolve. They’re global, they’re complex, they’re tightly woven in, into other issues. So, to think about these issues at a global scale, so therefore we need to think about all the different actors and the different knowledge systems.

One example that we can think about in terms of scaling up or learning from below is, for instance, what’s happening in Nepal. 

News Reporter 5: , Launched in Nepal’s [00:21:00] Rai region, the FCPF program brings together local communities, civil society, and indigenous peoples to conserve forests while improving rural incomes, helping partner countries tackle climate change while empowering forest communities.

It’s a smart example of how climate finance can reward conservation and how local forest communities can play a global role in reducing emissions. 

Dr Farhana Sultana: Another could be like the example from, let’s say the Navajo Nation, which is, an indigenous nation in the United States, and how they have, you know, their own environment protection agency. 

So they can craft regulations that are tailored to both the local cultural historic norms, but then they tend to help those who are not familiar with it to reimagine the relationship to the land, to the relationship to governance, to that building of the state. That is, much more decentralised and context-specific. 

So if we think about climate governance in terms of, you know, what are the [00:22:00] ways we can think much more globally, but also in terms of nation state in, pluralistic governance, I think one of the ways to think about this is to embrace those local social and political transformations, beyond the technocratic. 

Kandice Louis-Wilson: Absolutely. That’s such a good point. And, I love that you mentioned the work that the Navajo Tribe is doing here in the United States. As a person who works here with the different tribal nations, I often see that we don’t lean to the knowledge and insight that they bring and look at how their systems are thriving in comparison to the struggles that we have sometimes in our systems.

The things that you mentioned were different adaptation strategies that these different populations and and environments are doing. And so how should we consider gender within these adaptation strategies? Because it’s also very easy to go back to that patriarchal mindset and go back to like what works well for the mainstream. But how do we make sure that we are incorporating all of the things that we were talking about regarding gender into those [00:23:00] strategies as well.

Dr Farhana Sultana: You know, gender is a power relation. How can we fundamentally, therefore, rethink our economic and political systems, so that it is not a reinforcement of patriarchy. If we keep the kind of gender sensitivity or attention to gender justice, the back of our minds, we can engage local and national governments, I believe, in different strategies. You know, where grassroots groups work together to pressure both local and national governments in terms of paying attention to gender.

But it can also come the other way around. How do, let’s say a gender policy that’s been set by a national government get mainstreamed, and what ways does this work, and is it responsive and reflective of ground realities? And I think one of the ways to think about this is recognising that importance of not dispossessing or oppressing almost half the local population in terms of what [00:24:00] happens to women and girls, if you do not recognise what’s happening. 

So can we leverage that kind of knowledge, research or policy critiques or, you know, ethnographic work that people are doing, whether it’s the local nonprofit, grassroots organisation, the reports they’re producing.

Can we leverage that local knowledge or action to drive national change so that we do not just sit back on laurels and assume that because we have implemented or designed a gender policy that it, everything, is fine. So you have to check in and ensure that there’s a critical feedback loop in terms of that accountability and transparency.

But also recognise that, you know, sometimes even the so-called consultants get it wrong. Perhaps the way gender has been conceptualised is not locally, you know, acceptable. So what are the ways that you can combine the two? Are there ways to think [00:25:00] of transforming oppressive power relations without it being such an upheaval that it is therefore rejected?

People want their families to be better off. People want their children to have more education and clean water, and safe food. People want to have safe homes and safe neighbourhoods. So with that in mind, how is that done? Whose ideas are we listening to? There’s very quiet work that can be done. Sometimes it’s about deep listening. But at the same time, it can also mean that if there’s really problematic local patriarchal oppression, to not just cave in and ignore it either.

So to call it out, but, to see the way that, you know, patriarchy can be quite internalised. And what are the ways that perhaps it’s education or employment opportunities that actually start to shift the needle. And it has been shown right, that education, of women and girls and employment opportunities end up [00:26:00] shifting and transforming and making, societies much more gender responsive and much more gender equitable. 

Gabrielle Beran Beran: You gave such wonderful examples there of everyday people doing their everyday work and, and the way that that can shift culture. Something that we haven’t touched on, and I would really love to hear your opinions on, is about representation in some of these more formal structures and the role of, just the numbers. 

There just being women in local government. There being women in community leadership roles to steward that new future into place. How crucial is representation? Or, you know, maybe the opposite is, could we ever do it without equal representation in these formal structures? 

Dr Farhana Sultana: I think that’s an ongoing challenge for almost all governments because we still continue to see very, very tokenistic parroting.

You know, you have the token female [00:27:00] representative who is basically saying what a male representative would’ve said. Who is not necessarily using their position to rock the boat. But I think that representation still matters because it signifies or signals to the young girl out there that she too can attain this position, and therefore it gives a much wider sense of purpose.

So if people want to be heads of government, or if people want to be heads of their tribe, or if people want to be leaders in their movement, you see that representation is important. And not only in terms of what it inspires, but also the fact that a, a lot of people in these positions bring in new forms of knowledge.

So, for instance, you know, who is knowledgeable about vulnerability in their community? You know, who is asking the questions about access to resources? Who’s making the decisions? So, you know, in that way, women’s voice and knowledge should be included in planning and implementation, [00:28:00] and design strategies because it is so important to not maintain the centuries and centuries of that form of patriarchal male domination.

But at the same time being mindful that some women can also participate in perpetuating patriarchal oppression and class-based or race-based oppression. So if we want to recognise that representation matters, we need to recognise that the representation is there, not just for representing, but to tackle and address these ongoing, entrenched, gender oppressive historical realities.

It is to try to tackle those issues, and not just to have figureheads. 

Gabrielle Beran: Absolutely. And, and I was just, as you were speaking, I was thinking that both Bangladesh, the country that you’re from, and New Zealand, the country where I’m from, have a long history of strong female politicians. And I do reflect sometimes on what that meant was possible for me in a way that friends and [00:29:00] colleagues have not always seen.

But your point about internalised misogyny is very well made and certainly something listeners, if it’s not something you’ve heard before, um, something that’s definitely worth a Google. 

Kandice Louis-Wilson: To close this out, we ask all of our guests to share a key learning that they could share with the government in order to help them pave a better future in climate and gender.

We want you to speak directly to the government figures and public workers listening to this podcast right now. What do they need to learn? 

Dr Farhana Sultana: The good folks working in various governments around the world. First of all, I know it’s a tough job, but at the same time, it’s really important to recognise the issues that we talked about in this podcast in terms of gender marginalisation, in terms of intersectionality.

Learn what these mean. Figure out who is the most vulnerable. Don’t take people’s word for it. Have better research teams. Recognise that representation matters. Who has access to resources? Who is being denied them? Who is making decisions in your government? Who is not? Who is being heard? Who is being tokenisticly just being given lip service to? [00:30:00] How can you design better gender sensitive policies. But have more accountability to the girls who grow up in your government in the next 50 years. How are you representing the current community so that you are handing off your government to the next generation in a much more inclusive, a much more justice-oriented way. So that your legacy is not one of criticism, but one in which people said this was the turning point, and this government helped us get there.

Kandice Louis-Wilson: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Dr Sultana, for your time. I’ve truly enjoyed this conversation. Uh, I’m super excited to just get into your book, learn more about what’s going on there, and hear about all the amazing things that you’re doing in this work. 

Dr Farhana Sultana: Thank you for having me. 

Kandice Louis-Wilson: I really enjoyed that conversation.

Gabrielle Beran: Yeah, me too. 

Kandice Louis-Wilson: There were so many different points I appreciated. Just the different talks about, the internalisation of [00:31:00] misogyny and patriarchy as an American. I resonated deeply with that. And I think, you know, it’s literally built into all of our systems, our legislation, our government, our policies, our practices, even more, just talking about the impact of that and how that, just steers the way that things work and operate in something as important as climate. It’s a little scary, but I, I, I really like the points that she brought, and I really like how she talked about the reversal of that. And that is what brought me hope because it’s like, okay, this is where we’re at, but how do we move towards something different? 

Gabrielle Beran: Yes. And it’s something that doesn’t come up that often.

Like that’s why I was so intrigued when she said that because it’s something that we know exists, but really doesn’t feel like it’s in the public sphere. I think talking about water is such a vital example and reality. And particularly for people who feel a bit disconnected from climate and from climate action, it can be a really useful way to connect yourself to, to the issues and the problem.

And she said not only the water that [00:32:00] we consume, we wash, we bathe, we drink, we cook with. But then also the impact of water as it floods, as it doesn’t arrive by rain, that water cycle is. Yeah, as a climate nerd, just such an ultimate example of humans and nature and, and how it shows up in our daily lives and something that we certainly take for granted.

Kandice Louis-Wilson: Honestly, I think it’s also too a Global North problem. Uh, I think we are the over consumers. It’s crazy that the conversation is happening more in the Global South when, as she said before, a lot of the conversations are happening amongst people who are not equipped or in positions to make those changes.

So while they’re talking about the overconsumption of it, and most places there take only what they need, whereas in I have access to a faucet that I could run all day if I wanted to. And, and that’s, that’s the reality of it. And so it’s frustrating, but also it brings hope that the conversations are being had.

But I would love to see them in the right places with the right people because [00:33:00] they are reaping the consequences of our overconsumption and we are not having conversations about it. 

Gabrielle Beran: Absolutely. And if, if we had more time, we could absolutely get into sort of the broader international development ramifications of, of countries who deserve to make the leapfrogs that, that our home countries made in terms of industrialisation. But are, are now being told, no, sorry, fossil fuels. You shouldn’t use that. 

Kandice Louis-Wilson: Right. 

Gabrielle Beran: And the hypocrisy of that, which is wild. 

Kandice Louis-Wilson: We’ll keep using ours. We gotta drive that point. 

Gabrielle Beran: Oh yeah. 

Kandice Louis-Wilson: We’ll keep using ours. But you know, don’t, don’t do that over there. It’s like, and what your mom used to say, uh, do as I say, not as I do. Yeah. It’s that. It’s that number. So. 

Gabrielle Beran: Oh, it’s so paternalistic right? It’s crazy.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Reimagining Government. This is a special series on climate and gender brought to you by the Centre for Public Impact. If you want to learn more about the work we do at CPI, check out our website at centerforpublicimpact.org, and that’s centre [00:34:00] C-E-N-T-R-E.

Kandice Louis-Wilson: If you enjoyed this episode and are enjoying the series so far, please consider rating and reviewing on your podcast app. It only takes a few seconds, and it helps us reach more people and keep the show going. It’s also just nice to be nice, so consider your good deed for the day. 

Gabrielle Beran: I’m Gabrielle. 

Kandice Louis-Wilson: And I’m Kandice, and we’ll see you next time.