Introduction
The methods and approaches used to measure systems change can often feel out of sync with the complex, relational realities unfolding in communities on the ground. What is measured and learned can feel disconnected from the stories communities tell— or even paint an entirely different picture. In the third session of our Stories and Systems learning circle, we explored how storytelling can reshape the way we think about measurement and impact.
This is the third conversation in a four-part series exploring the relationship between storytelling and systems change. In our first session, we looked at the potential of stories to transform systems. The second session was an invitation to explore the diverse storytelling forms and traditions, as well as their connection to systems change.
In the this session, we heard from the following speakers:
- Skye Trudgett, CEO, Kowa;
- Kate McKegg, Co-Founder, The Developmental Evaluation Institute;
- Gretel Evans, Research Fellow at Fire to Flourish, Monash University;
- Eve Millar, Director of Strengthening Data, PLACE Australia
The worldview that shapes impact measurement
In many funded initiatives, impact measurement has become a hallmark of credibility or certainty in a world of confusion and complexity. Multiple panellists noted that the main way impact is usually measured and understood is often guided by top-down expectations from government and philanthropy, who seek credibility or certainty for understandable reasons. These expectations are grounded in the “if–then” linear mindset, which Kate described as the assumption that change will unfold in predictable ways that can be quantified and measured.
This approach is seductive because it promises certainty, yet it often falls short in matching the messy reality of change. Pressure to comply with these expectations can lead us to focus on measurable aspects that are tangible or easier to quantify rather than on what truly matters to those experiencing the programs and initiatives being evaluated.
Insights generated in this way often feel disconnected from the lived realities of communities and fail to capture the fullness of the change on the ground. One practitioner described such insights to Kate as “specious insight that only has a passing resemblance to what’s actually going on on the ground.”
For Kate, this also speaks of a colonial-industrial era logic that has contributed to the crises we see today. Instead, she suggests we take a different approach:
“What if we view the world differently? What if we saw it as constantly moving, changing, and dynamic, where everything is in relationship with everything, just as we are, and that we can’t break things up as we assume when we measure them? That we have to be in relationship with things, with people, with nature, and the rhythms of life around us. For me, that’s where stories and storytelling come into play.”
The panel built on this reflection, pointing out that creating space for storytelling in evaluation is not the same as interviewing. In a story, the storyteller shapes the path, the detail and even the medium of the story. By valuing these stories as a valid form of evidence gathering, we can adopt a worldview that prioritises the perspectives of those in the community and gather insights that capture the fullness of change in a living system.
Weaving stories and data
For Skye, storytelling is a form of impact measurement. Skye reminded us that practices like song, dance, art, and yarning are not alternatives to data; they are data. The industrial mindset, often synonymous with Western thinking, separates “data” and “story” in an artificial rupture.
“There has been a period of time where Western dominance has decided that impact measurement is something different to storytelling. And so, I think we’ve seen Indigenous cultures across the globe use storytelling, song, dance, cultural practices, and many other different practices as impact measurement, as well as evaluative processes and practices. It is all one and the same thing to me.”
Contemporary tools are beginning to catch up with this wisdom. The Most Significant Change method placed the power to define impact in the hands of those experiencing an intervention by asking, “What was most meaningful to you?” Platforms like NarraFirma enable storytellers to interpret their own narratives, rather than filtering them through the evaluator’s judgment. SenseMaker is a tool that combines numbers and analytics with stories and human wisdom. These approaches allow relational, subjective assessments of meaningful change to be shaped by the lived experience of communities.
Through her work on Impact Yarns, Skye’s measurement approach began with the stories already present in the communities during a program. She also created space for new stories to emerge in whatever form feels right to the teller, whether through food, art, or photographs. This approach allows for the possibility that the most valuable insights might surface in unexpected ways, “in the car ride home from a meeting or during a smoke break”.
“So we would say, ‘Hey, who are you? Where are you from? What are the changes that have happened since you’ve been a part of the program or in this community? What’s the most impactful kind of yarn you want to share with us? Why is that the case?’ But we could allow someone to zoom out from that and go, ‘I get a sense of what you’re asking me, but I want to respond to that. I want to share my story in a different way.’”
When we value stories as data, we begin to see the change that might not otherwise be captured. Gretel shared an example from Fire to Flourish’s work in a community affected by the 2019 – 2020 Australian bushfires. In one community, several members came together to create a community music festival, which on the surface appeared to have nothing to do with disaster resilience. However, in reality, it developed the skills, networks, and capabilities needed to mobilise the resources to support and feed 200 people in the event of another disaster.
The real story of resilience in Gretel’s example came alive in conversations with the community. It emerged when people shared their stories in the ways that felt right to them. . Following this conversation, one approach to storytelling, measurement, and impact may be to weave quantitative measures with the warmth of lived narrative, accepting that they will sometimes contradict each other and sitting with the discomfort that emerges from this tension. Nora Bateson’s concept of warm and cold data offers a framework for this approach.
As Eve reflected: “It’s the combination [of data and story], I think, that helps tell the full story and that there will be different formats and different ways of doing that suit different people and different groups. I think it goes to how do we find different and sort of broad ways of telling stories because even cold data can tell stories if it’s the right sort of cold data.”
The Southern Initiative in New Zealand has published one thoughtful example of blending quantitative data with stories to create richer insights and understanding:
“Integrating multiple sources of knowledge offers new, often profound insights for better policy and practice. In this Project, combining science and data with lived experiences became a powerful way for whanau and data scientists to make meaning, check assumptions, surface new ideas and uncover fresh leads.”
Storytelling gives us the long view
When we think about impact, it’s easy to focus on short-term outcomes or the lifespan of a single project. However, real change often unfolds over decades, across generations, and within deeply rooted relationships. Storytelling offers a way to understand these longer arcs.
In this approach, the storyteller sets the boundaries of the stories, allowing them to capture the histories, relationships, and patterns that matter most over time.. They reveal the “before” and “after” in a way that isn’t artificially bounded by project timelines, funding, or policy cycles. Storytelling enables the continuity of meaning and measurement of change over decades of experiences in a place.
Skye described working with First Nations communities where displacement by a bushfire brought up fear and distrust of the government that ran deep. In these contexts, the usual impact measurement approaches can reinforce mistrust. Through storytelling, these communities could voice their experiences in their own terms, including acknowledging the historical context behind challenges and recognising the importance of repairing trust, relationships and healing from historical harms.
Critically, community-led sense-making maintains ownership of the story within the community, aligning with the principles of data sovereignty. When storytellers interpret their own narratives, the result is not just richer insight, but a redistribution of agency. As a panellist from an earlier Stories and Systems session reflected, there can be no story without the storyteller.
Towards new approaches to measurement
The unifying message from this session is that we need to broaden our understanding and approaches to measurement and impact. We need to expand our definition of data and reimagine how we interpret, balance, and respond to the different forms of evidence in ensembles. Stories and storytelling can create space for those most affected to share their experiences. In doing so, they make room for multiple truths and a more comprehensive understanding of complexity to emerge.
In our fourth and final session of this series, we will explore how to create brave spaces for storytelling and story listening, where stories can be shared with compassion and collective understanding.
